Freethinkers United! Conference, Orlando
March 28, 1997
Mitchell Modisett: ... recovering Catholic, an enlightened Protestant, a Unitarian who has seen the light, an atheist, an agnostic, a humanist, a rationalist, by whatever name, you're welcome here and you are all among friends. I'm a member of every organization like this and they send me a bill almost every week. I am absolutely certain that there is much much more that binds us together than any little picky thing somebody can find that would separate us. The only thing that Christos said that you can go first and say whatever you want and I'll finish and but ... I was just thinking, Christos, do you know what we forgot? We forgot to have a prayer before the meal started and but listen it's not to late ... Do we have a pastor in the house? We should have done this first, but all right ... Oh God ... use the microphone: Oh God, if there so be one, thee with infinite knowledge, infinite wisdom, who knows exactly how we feel and think and gives us exactly what we deserve, we will not insult God's infinite knowledge and infinite wisdom by telling God what God already knows and ask for things which we don't deserve with prayers.
Ay-men, brother, ay-men. [corrected by audience member: Ah-men!]
Ay-women, too.
I presume I'm now--you have all seen in your program that Paul Kurtz could not be with us. He had a heart attack. He had bypass surgery and he still wanted to come, but his doctors told him to take it easy and act your age, and so he couldn't be here tonight. There is, however, a get-well-card someplace in this room making the rounds. There it is over there -- all right. I hope everyone will sign his or her name and we will send it to Paul and I think this will do him better than a word of prayer. Now at this time (get a life) at this time I'll turn this over to Matt ... to Christos Tzanetakos, president of the Atheist Alliance and he ... Atheists of Florida ... Christos and I have worked very closely together and he will introduce the next speaker.
Christos: Thank you Mitch. On behalf of Atheists of Florida and Atheist Alliance I would like to welcome all of you to our sun state of Florida and I wish that you will have a wonderful time--a memorable time here. My name, of course, Christos, as you know and I'm the real one, I'm flesh and bone, not like the imaginary one. I'm sure all of you heard the expression: Where's the beef, and I would like to apologize for those of you who chose beef for dinner today and tomorrow, but we had to go with one choice of dinner and that was the less expensive which is chicken, so again our apologies for the ones that were chosen the beef instead of chicken, but under the circumstances I hope that you will understand. With no further adieu I would like to introduce the next speaker which is Mr. Matt Cherry and he is going to give an insight in the development of atheism and freethinking movement around not only our country, but in Europe which he is more familiar and he came from. Mr. Matthew Cherry.
Matt Cherry: It's nice to meet Christos again. The first time I met Christos was at an international humanist and atheist meeting in Toronto and I found myself in a bar at the conference hotel, which isn't so unusual for me. But on one side of me I had Christos; on the other side I had Jesus Fuertas, the leader of the Spanish Humanists. For me I think it's more unusual to be at an atheist conference with Jesus to the left of me and Christos to the right of me.
I am very pleased and honored to be speaking here today, but I regret the circumstances that brought this about. Since I am speaking in place of Paul Kurtz, the Chairman of the Council for Secular Humanism. And as Mitch said, Paul has had a heart bypass operation last December to correct a clogged artery. He didn't, in fact, have a heart attack, but while he was in Mexico City for the World Humanist Congress, at the altitude of 6,000 feet he felt a bit short of breath so he went back for a check up and was advised to have an operation. Paul is making an excellent recovery and he is once again bursting at the seams with ideas energy and enthusiasm, but he is under strict doctor's orders to avoid too much stress and work and he is therefore not attending any conferences in the first six months of this year. Paul asked me to express his regrets at being unable to attend this meeting and he send you his very best wishes for the success of the conference.
As you will see from your programs, my career has taken me to three different countries and to work for humanist organizations in three different places. Originally I worked for the British Humanist Association in London. Then I moved to Holland to work for the International Humanist and Ethical Union in Utrecht. Then I was lured over to Buffalo by Paul Kurtz to work for the Council of Secular Humanism. So in this course of going from England to Holland to America I have followed the course of the Pilgrim fathers. They left England because they found it intolerant of their beliefs and went to Holland. Unfortunately they found Holland far too tolerant. It not only tolerated their beliefs, but also some heretics and infidels as well. So, they finally sailed to America where they were free to practice their own religion while persecuting all other dissenters. So, following in the Pilgrim father's footsteps, on my own strictly secular pilgrimage, I feel a certain responsibility and I would like to say I'm frightfully sorry about those Puritans and I am trying to clear up the mess they made.
My topic tonight is Humanism Around the World. In my talk I will look briefly at some of the more successful humanist groups around the World, particularly those in Holland, Norway and India, but I'll also look at the work of the International Humanist Ethical Union, an organization that surely exemplifies the title of this conference: Freethinkers United!
There are over 100 international humanist organizations in the world. These organizations are located in nearly fifty countries, covering six continents. They include membership organizations, publishing firms, international development agencies, educational institutes, social work agencies, broadcasting stations, and much else besides. All these groups share a common philosophy and similar principles, although naturally they may emphasize different elements of this common philosophy as well as pursuing their principles in very different ways.
The common humanist philosophy will no doubt be familiar to most of you and I would like to quickly go over it by reducing it to three key components. Firstly, humanism is a naturalistic world view. Humanists see no evidence for a supernatural realm and therefore reject belief in any gods or higher being, and in any afterlife or spiritual plane. Humanism accepts that human beings are products of natural evolution and that human understanding and human values are exactly that: human, with no need for a supernatural or transcendental basis. Secondly, humanism is an ethical life stance based on human autonomy and dignity. It affirms that people have the right and the responsibility to give shape and meaning to their own life and it emphasizes the positive development of our own personal potential and demands that we respect the rights and well being of others. Thirdly, humanism embraces a rational and open methodology. We believe that science and rational inquiry are the best tools for gaining reliable knowledge of our world while accepting that all claims to knowledge are fallible and provisional. These three basic elements are shared by all humanist groups.
Of course I could elaborate on these elements at far greater length--like several hours greater length--but my point here is not to argue for or explore these principles, but merely to show you that when I refer to humanism and to humanist groups in countries and contexts which may be very unfamiliar to you, I am in fact talking about the same philosophy with which most of you are familiar. Before moving on, I should also note this common philosophy gives rise to many very important shared principles that shape the work of humanist organizations. For example, humanists are unswerving in their support for human rights and democracy, for free inquiry and rational discourse and for tolerance and cooperation.
The world's humanist groups are joined together in an umbrella organization called the International Humanist and Ethical Union, IHEU for short. Formed in 1950, IHEU now has 100 member organizations from 35 countries. These organizations come in many different forms and with many different titles. Some call themselves rationalists, or ethicists. Many call themselves humanists, or freethinkers or atheists or ethical or secularists, but they all share the common humanist philosophy which I outlined above. IHEU has consultant status with the United Nations and many other international bodies including UNESCO and UNICEF. It therefore has teams of representatives at the United Nations in New York, Geneva and Vienna and at UNESCO in Paris, UNICEF in New York and at European Union in Brussels and Strasbourg. IHEU is the only explicitly non-theistic organization to hold official consultative status at the world's major forums. The IHEU is therefore representing at the highest global levels the views and concerns of the godless people of the world. At the beginning of this year, the headquarters of IHEU moved from Holland to London, England and a new executive director was appointed. The new headquarters are within a 40,000 square foot National Humanist Center in the heart of central London. And the IHEU's new executive director is G.R.R. Babu, a dynamic young leader from the Indian Humanist movement who moved to London just two months ago. The IHEU has grown very rapidly in recent years--over the 1st ten years or so. But I am confident that its growth and its impact will be given a huge boost by this new beginning and its new staff. For those of you who would like to visit England and London, Oxford in particular, the official launch of the new International Humanist and Ethical Union headquarters will be in London this June when there will be a week of humanist events from June the 19th to June the 25th, including a conference at the Center for Inquiry at Oxford University. In addition to its headquarters offices, IHEU has a number of secretariats around the world. For example, the IHEU Secretariat for International Growth and Development is run by the Council for Secular Humanism at the Center for Inquiry International in Amherst, New York, of which more later.
At present, organized humanism is strongest in Europe, especially northwestern Europe, in India and in North America. The social and organizational contexts in these three regions are quite distinct. Europe is highly secular with organized religion and belief in God in massive decline. In France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Spain, Scandinavia and the Benelux countries, between 25 and 55% of the population do not believe in God. Only 5 to 20% of the population in these countries attend church and religious belief and practice is highest amongst the most elderly segments of the population, which seems to be a function more of when they were brought up rather than of people becoming more religious as they get older. In other words, we can expect that the religious support in Europe will continue to plunge in the next few decades.
The European rejection of religious belief has advanced very rapidly and continues to do so. In the late 1940's belief in God in all of these countries was over 90% And it has only been in the last 25 to 30 years that religious belief has started to fall below this 90% level in all of these countries, so it may be a heartening lesson for America where belief is still at 90%, that in some countries religion has declined so rapidly in just one or two generations.
The most secular and most humanist country in Europe is probably the Netherlands where at least 55% of the population do not believe in God and whose social policies are a byword for enlightened humanism and tolerance. The Dutch government supports many social services that are linked to peoples religion or their life stance. Examples include moral or life stance education in schools, counselling in hospitals, universities and the armed forces, and even TV and radio programs that deal with ethical and social issues. In all of these areas, the Dutch government supports religious and Humanist groups so that they can meet the needs of their respective communities. As a result there are over 1,000 humanist professionals in Holland as well as many professional humanists workers in development agencies, broadcasting stations, as well as counsellors and educators.
The same model as the Dutch model is followed in Belgium where over 500 humanist professionals work under the direction of the National Humanist groups.
And a similar model is also beginning to emerge in Germany. The German Humanists have grown spectacularly since the unification of East and West Germany. And the German Humanist League now has over 400 professional educators and counsellors under its direction. In 1989 when the wall came down they had about half a dozen staff so we can hope their growth will continue over the next few years and they will soon be larger than the Dutch Humanist movement.
The German Humanists have also taken a lead in helping humanist groups in the liberated countries of the former Eastern Bloc. The German Humanist League has financed and run the IHEU secretariat for central and eastern Europe which has supported the creation and growth of humanist groups in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. This support has been invaluable in the aftermath of the collapse of Soviet domination where many religious groups ranging from the Vatican to Scientologists have devoted enormous resources to try to evangelize the former Communist countries.
In addition to the work the German Humanists the Council for Secular Humanism has taken an active role helping to form and finance the new Russian Humanist Society and we have just opened a Center for Inquiry at Moscow State University as well as providing financial support for the influential Polish Humanist Magazine Bez Dogmatu, which in Polish means "Without Dogma." In fact some of our staff members from the Center for Inquiry attended a Central and East European Humanist Conference in Warsaw last September and it was very impressive the way that this attracted great media coverage and considerable support. As many of you may know, Poland has been the number one target of the Vatican anywhere in the world in its attempt to impose Catholic law as national law within one country. And, of course, the Pope himself is a Pole and has taken a very special interest in this. And at the humanist conference last September a long message was sent by the Prime Minister of Poland saying how much he welcomed the humanist conference and how much he supported the principles of the humanist movement and its defense of secularism within the country. I think a lot of this achievement in Eastern Europe has been made possible by the support of humanist groups in Europe and America. [applause]
The humanist movement with the largest membership in Europe is in Norway. The Norwegian Humanists have over 60,000 adult members out of a total national population of around 4 million. This amounts to about 1.5% of the population. If the Council for Secular Humanism were to attract the same proportion of the American population, we would have nearly 4 million members, which exceeds even the bold targets of the Council for Secular Humanism's 10-year development plan. Maybe in 20 years. The Norwegian membership is not only large, it is rapidly expanding. It has grown 30 fold in less than 20 years. In 1977, the Norwegian Humanist League had only 1700 members. They expect to exceed 100,000 members before the year 2005.
The Norwegian Humanist League with its 60,000 members is but a minnow compared to some of the humanist groups in India. The Indian Humanists were one of the seven founding countries of the IHEU in 1952. On a subcontinent of nearly one billion people, it's home to the largest, most varied, and most active humanist movement in the world. The Fall 1996 issue of Free Inquiry has a lengthy article about humanism in India, so I won't describe the movement in the detail that it deserves. But I would like to make some general remarks because I think the Indian humanist movement is important, not just because every sixth human being on this planet is Indian--though that's a pretty good reason--but I think it is also crucially important because four out of every five human beings live in a developing country, and the Indian humanist movement provides a wonderful example of the value and possibilities of organized humanism in the developing world.
I believe that the greatest strength of the humanist movement in India is its combination of theory and practice. It helps people, but also analyzes the roots of their problems. There are many organizations in India who are doing excellent development work and aid and relief work, but this is only dealing with the problems after they occur, and it is essential that there are groups that can also deal with the roots of those problems so that they don't occur in the first place. The Indian humanist groups provide philosophical answers but they test these answers in practical projects. And the great Indian humanist leaders have been important thinkers and writers but they have also built durable and successful organizations which generate social change at the grass roots level.
The practical development work of the Indian Humanists include programs to improve life in rural villages and in urban slums and it combines both direct help such as running hospitals and feeding the hungry with the longer term goals of promoting family planning, improving education and giving people the training so they can work for their own living.
I know that several of the atheist leaders here today visited many of these projects while taking part in the various international atheist and humanist conferences in India in January 1996. In fact, this is the first atheist conference I've been to since attending the World atheist conference in Vijayawada in Southern India. And I would like to congratulate the atheists on their excellent choice of conference locations which allow me to escape the snowy winters of Buffalo and come to sunny tropical climes in Southern India and Florida. I think it was Mark Twain who said he would choose heaven for the climate and hell for the company. But, he failed to mentioned that if you don't believe in heaven or hell and you come to an atheist conference you can have the best of both because you will have great climate and great company. [applause]
There are over a dozen humanist groups in India. Some of these have only a small membership but are very influential among intellectuals and opinion formers. Other groups such as the half-million strong Parias movement--the self respect movement--have mass membership and substantial political clout. I know that several atheist leaders here visited the Periyas Movement's headquarters in Madras and I am sure you loved the "in-your-face" atheism captured in Periyas' most famous slogan. Maybe some of you would care to join me in saying this. The Periyas slogan is: There is no god; there is no god; there is no god at all. He who invented god is a fool; he who propagates god is a scoundrel; he who worships is a barbarian." {applause]
This statement which even many atheists would be afraid to say is actually all over the state of Tamul Nadu. It's on government property; it's on statues and squares; it's over schools. And this is one of the most interesting and effective atheist movements in the world.
I think between them the Indian groups show how humanism can be influential, relevant and popular, and how it can radically improve the quality of people's lives.
The last few years the Indian Humanist Groups, which are all members of IHEU, have been receiving financial support from the IHEU Secretariat for Growth and Development. The Secretariat is now run by the council for Secular Humanism and it gives practical and financial support to projects and new groups in developing countries. Currently it distributes nearly $100,000 a year to humanist groups in the developing world. Since 1994 we have given large-scale financial and practical support to humanist groups and projects in Bangla Desh, China, Costa Rica, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Peru and Senegal. This is in addition to the support the Council for Secular Humanism has given to humanist groups in Eastern Europe, notably Poland and Russia and it's in addition to the money that the Norwegian Humanists have given to groups in India and South Asia.
Fifteen years ago there were, at least to the best of our knowledge, no humanist groups in the developing world outside of India. Now there are humanist groups in over two dozen developing countries and we are in contact with humanist activists in many more. The latest humanist group to be created is in Nepal where the Humanists of Nepal were launched in Katmandu in January of this year. So now even the remote Himalayan mountains are being penetrated by our godless ideals.
In fact I was so inspired by the Humanists of Nepal acronym, HUMAN, that I suggested to them that they join with their neighbors in the Buddhist kingdom of Bhutan to form a Himalayan group of humanists who would of course have the acronym: HIGH, which seemed very appropriate for the Himalayas. But my pun was so bad that they missed my point entirely and took me seriously and so now it looks like there will in fact be a Himalayan humanist group launched before the end of the year.
This wonderful expansion of atheist and humanist organizations is in large part due to the work and support of the IHEU and its leading member organizations. Last year the IHEU's annual board meeting was held in Bombay, India and its World Humanist Congress held only once every three years was held in Mexico City. Before 1996 in more than forty years of history the IHEU had never had a meeting outside of Europe or North America. It had never even met in a Spanish speaking country before the Mexico World Congress. The success of the Mexico Congress with, participants from over twenty countries, was a wonderful testament to the recent growth of the International Humanist and Ethical Union. It was also a great triumph for the Mexican Humanist Association which gained incredible media coverage for the event with many front page feature stories and extensive radio and TV coverage. This is very new for Mexico to have a group promoting humanist and atheist ideals; and to attract this much attention in what is predominantly a very strongly Catholic country is a great achievement.
The venue of the next World Congress has not yet been decided. The Council for Secular Humanism is proposing that it should be in Los Angeles in the summer or fall of 1999. The year 2000 will be full of global conferences and we want to have one just ahead of the crowd. We also want this Congress to give a great boost to the humanist and freethought cause in America as it enters a new century. We will therefore be inviting all the humanist and freethought organizations in the USA to work with us in making this Congress the largest and most successful humanist or freethought meeting ever held anywhere in the world. I would therefore like to take this opportunity to invite the Atheist Alliance to join the International Humanist and Ethical Union. The IHEU is the organization for godless heathens so I think you would feel at home in our ranks. And I think there would be many benefits to you joining the IHEU. By joining together in this International organization, atheists and humanists are represented at the international level, even in the United Nations itself. By joining together we are able to support the growth of freethought groups and humanist principles throughout the world. And by joining together, we are developing an international community of freethinkers and humanists who can share experiences, learn from each other's successes and cooperate in advancing our principles throughout the world. So, I invite the Atheist Alliance to apply to the IHEU. What could be a more appropriate action to result from a conference entitled "Imagine Freethinkers United!"? [applause] Now do I get the honor of inviting questions? Is there a microphone for people asking questions? If anyone has any questions about international humanism or about other aspects of my work?
Mitch: We have passed around some paper. We are doing it now. If anyone has a question that you would like answered, jot it down and we will bring it up and it will be answered. We will try to make the answer as short as the question. Now, we have about 200 people here and it's uncertain about the best way to have group participation so we are going to try this and I hope there are no physicians present. If so, I hope you will print so we can read your question. With apologies to the medical staff ... Matt: Do you want to read the questions and I'll answer them? Mitch: I have heard that the Council for Secular Humanism has a ten-year plan. Could you discuss this and what the Council is doing to put forward the positive aspects of secular humanism?
Matt: That's putting my choice for the best first question and I hope that no one will object if we cancel the next speaker so that I can answer this question in the detail that it deserves. I will try and keep my answer short. Detailed information on the Council's ten-year plan is available from our office. But to try to summarize it, over the last 18 months the Council for Secular Humanism has mapped out a strategic development plan to try to massively increase the influence of humanist principles in America. And in support of this plan we are launching a ten-year fund drive with a ten million dollar target. Personally I'm pretty confident we will reach it before ten years, but it's good to have a plan. The plan has about 60 points and targets and goals, but we identify or summarize four principle aims out of these goals. Firstly, to promote secular humanist principles. Secondly to develop public support and participation in humanist organization. Thirdly, to develop the Center for Inquiry as an educational and research center, and fourthly, to gain the resources to make the first three aims come true. I guess the aim which might be of most interest to the people here who are mainly activists and very involved in local groups is our aim of developing public support for humanism and developing participation in humanist projects and groups. To achieve this we are going to re-vamp and re-launch all our current activities, even our magazine, Free Inquiry and our newsletters. For example, just last week we appointed a new editor to Free Inquiry who is a guy by the name of Luke Vaugn who used to be the editor of a magazine called Prevention, which is a little health magazine you may have seen in supermarkets. He managed to take up the circulation of that magazine to three million readers, so if he can achieve the same thing for Free Inquiry we may in fact reach the level of the Norwegian Humanists.
I have one quick thing. In terms of improving participation, Ed Kagin has put out some forms on your tables and these promote Camp Quest which is a project to provide summer camp for children ages 8 to 12 and it was held for the first time last year and was a great success and will be held again this summer. And I hope if anyone has any interest or anyone has children or grandchildren who might be interested in this, please contact Ed Kagin or myself and we will give you information.
Mitch: This is not working. Christos and I thought if we did this we could prevent two or three people from making speeches of their own but we have collected so far 137 of these questions. Now this is the last one. No more...no more.....No more questions. Here we go: CODESH worked for the collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe. How would you assess the results of the free market triumph now?
Matt: OK I tried to keep my talk short so there would be time for questions. I'll try to keep the answers to the questions short. CODESH supported, as did all humanist groups, freedom in Eastern Europe and freedom to decide people's beliefs and also their economic system. Results of free markets in Eastern Europe remain to be seen. But I believe in most countries that freedom is ensured and I am sure the countries are much better off than they were under the Soviet system.
Mitch: If humanism is, as you say, atheistic, then why not call the movement atheist humanism? This would be truly be a universal freethought movement.
Matt: Well as I mentioned, there are many different names for humanist and freethought organizations. The International Humanist and Ethical Union does not impose any name on its member organizations, but historically it was felt that across all cultures the names humanistic and ethical had the biggest value. But it makes clear in its minimum statement and in its basic documents that it is a non-theistic organization. So, I wouldn't want to get hung up on the words. I think if you--everyone starts trying to include their favorite words you create more divisions rather than unity.
Mitch: Alright we have two questions here: What accommodations are being made to meet the needs of secular families and children? Do you really think America is making progress or is this just a hope that there is like so many -- much good news.
Matt: On the first question on reaching out to families and children, the Council is launching a secular family network which will attempt exactly this. We already have Camp Quest which is run by the Free Inquiry Group in Cincinnati and we are planning to launch a newsletter which will be edited by Jan Eisler over here and will be launched in Fall of this year, and we are planning to hold conferences and events which people can bring their families to, and while I'm here in Orlando, I'm taking the opportunity to check out some venues and hotels around Disney World so that we can have a conference where people can come with all their families and their families can go off and have a good time while the humanists come and sit in conferences. Maybe the humanists will decide they will go out and have a good time as well, so I think it would be a very welcomed development to have a conference which everyone can come to and people can bring their families to.
Mitch: How can an atheist organization function in an Islamic country? They absolutely detest people who deny the existence of God.
Matt: Correct. According to the Koran any apostate should be killed. An apostate is someone who rejects the religion they were born into, and some Islamic countries take this a step further. So in Saudi Arabia, anyone who doesn't believe in God, even if they weren't born a Muslim, is liable to the death penalty. But, the International Humanist community and the Council for Secular Humanism have been trying to develop a network--a humanistic network--in the Middle East. Some countries in the Middle East are more liberal than others. For example, Turkey is a secular state which has secularism enshrined in its constitution and Egypt for example does have a fairly liberal approach to secularism. In many of these countries the political leaders believe that Islam is the biggest threat to their country and there is some support for humanistic ideals. At the same time they can never use the word "atheist" and it's dangerous in those countries to use the word "secular." So, in we try to encourage development there. We have to be very careful. We have to deal mainly with academics and we have to use a certain amount of shielding the true purpose of the organization.
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Later this year we will hold the first ever conference of Israeli and Egyptian secular intellectuals. They will be meeting on the Red Sea in Egypt and we believe this is a very impressive and important step forward to bring people together from hostile cultures to find common ground based on humanist principles.
Mitch: I hope you will allow me to group a few questions together. These are questions which in my opinion are all concerned with freethought in America. Why is belief in God so epidemic in the U.S. as contrasted with Europe? How can humanists combat the religions right or isn't that realistic in the U.S.? Why is the rest of the world so free while religiosity is growing in the U.S.? It seems like the U.S. will soon be the only unenlightened country on earth. And finally: Why is there so little TV exposure regarding the humanist movement?
Matt: OK So why is the belief in God so epidemic in the U.S. as contrasted with Europe? Something I'm very interested in and we have discussed it a great deal at the Center for Inquiry. We have not come up with any definitive answer, though I think there are reasons why religious belief is still considered to be necessary in the U.S. One point I would like to make is that I think it is America which is anomalous in a sense because in Europe, although the trend is consistent across most countries towards non-religion, the systems of the cultures in those countries are all very different. For example the way religion is treated differs from country to country. In France they have strict separation of church and state. In Britain they have a state church. In Holland they support each of the groups equally. So, it seems there is no common reason for the change in Europe. It must be America which is the odd man out. And the reasons for this are hard to discern but I feel one factor is that America is a very mobile society where very often there aren't the kind of communities that have developed in Europe, communities of social support, and people turn to religion for a sense of stability and a sense of community and for a place where they can bring up their children with moral standards and all the rest of that stuff. That's certainly one difference between America and Europe. Another factor I feel is that in America you have this incredible free market of religion. In Europe, while you may not always have established churches, you always have one church which tends to be dominant or one or two churches. And they tend to get a bit fat and lazy and complacent and no one takes them that seriously. In America you have this incredible market place where everyone is competing for religious beliefs and religious believers' money and this generates a lot of energy and dynamism. Also, the tax laws in America greatly benefit religion. So the voice of religion is very loud in America because everyone can give money to the churches and get tax benefits from it which is not the case in Europe. So this kind of multiplies the effect of their beliefs and that's one reason that I will support the campaign to tax the churches because they have so much influence. Even if they're not that big of a religion, they have incredible influence through money.
Why is there so little TV exposure regarding the humanist movement? Humanism, I think, is too controversial nowadays for the mainstream television. I feel the advertisers would complain and the religious right would make so much noise that the TV companies would back off. They don't want any controversy. So I feel that the way forward for the humanist movement is to have its own TV and radio stations and make its own programs which it would put onto TV stations. And in a sense that's unfortunate because they should be there on merit. But I feel we have to get them there on the basis of our organization and skill and even our financial support.
Mitch: Thank you. Now I have some other questions which I have grouped together because they seem to be of a philosophic intent and so I will read these. I believe that you stated as a principle that all knowledge is imperfect and provisional. This is philosophy?? And to be recommended? Here is another question: Define and describe the purpose of this religious humanism. Paul Kurtz would have spoken of the differences and similarities of humanism and atheism. What brief summary would you offer on this topic? Secular humanism defines our brand of Humanism. Should we not use the terms humanism and humanist without the secular designation? Not all humanists are atheists. And the last one: Has the IHEU a working relationship with the International Association for Religious Freedom? And if so, what is it?
Matt: Has the IHEU a working relationship with the International Association for Religious Freedom? And if so, what is it? I've been in contact with Robert Traer who is Secretary General of the IARF and we have a friendly relationship and we are looking for ways to develop that. The IARF is based in Oxford England and I feel now that the IHEU has moved to London there will be the potential for a much closer working relationship, particularly working in coordination at the UN and other international forums where both groups support secular principles of religious freedom.
Define and describe the purpose of this religious humanism. I'm probably not the best person to advocate religious humanism because I feel its a misnomer, but ... as I would understand it religious humanists are humanists in the sense of being non-theistic and supporting all the principles that I outlined, but they would argue that humanism is a religion rather that describing it as a philosophy or a life stance.
Paul Kurtz would have spoken on the differences and similarities of humanism and atheism. What would brief summary would you offer on this topic? I'm afraid I have no idea what Paul was going to say, but I will say technically humanism is a lifestyle along the lines of the philosophy I outlined. Atheism technically is to be without a belief in God. I think in practice all the atheists I've met in atheist organizations are humanists in the sense of supporting more than just non-belief in God. We believe in Humanity and we believe this is the only world so we have to make the best of it. But I think technically atheism just refers to belief in God and not to principles about humanism. But, I wouldn't like to get into an argument on that because I know personally all the atheists I know support these humanist principles.
Secular humanism defines our brand of humanism. Should we not use the terms humanism and humanist without the secular designation? Not all humanists are atheists?
Well, I would argue that all are not theistic, but not all of them would describe themselves as atheist. Some of them are agnostic or whatever. And, because there are groups which describe themselves as religious humanists and feel very sincerely that humanism should be called a religion, I think it is important for groups that disagree with them to make that clear, which is why we call ourselves secular humanists. But in many contexts we just talk about humanism without any designation. Any more questions?
Mitch: Why am I reading this and then you're reading it? Matt: You chose and I'll read. Mitch: Alright, what impact has the internet, the world wide web, had on freethought from your point of view?
Matt: I think the internet is going to have a wonderful impact on freethought and humanism and already has. I think this impact will be felt in two ways. Firstly, it brings a lot of humanist organizations closer together because their members and supporters are interacting across these boundaries and I think that leads to a very healthy cross-fertilization. And secondly, it makes humanism and freethought available to a much wider audience than was possible in the past because humanism has so many web sites which people can find. If they type in a key word like atheism or nonbelief they will eventually get to these sites. Secondly, a lot of people take part in list serves and chat rooms and other forums on the internet and I find that humanists tend to be very articulate and very interested in getting involved in these debates. They have a high profile. So I feel the internet is a very good development for humanism and will ensure that our ideas get out to a much wider audience.
Mitch: I thought Tarik Ismael was the new editor. What happened to him. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago?
Matt: Tarik Ismael is an anonymous author and he will be working at the Center for Inquiry as a research fellow who will be doing studies into the Koran and Islamic belief from a nonbeliever's perspective and he was never con.... There must be a misunderstanding as there was never any interest in Tarik becoming an editor. He is studying at the Center as a research fellow and we look very much forward to his work on exposing the absurdities of Islam.
Mitch: Are the members of the Indian humanist group mainly or entirely of a rising Indian middle class? In the third world in general does humanism follow economic development? If so, would this imply that without radical economic development secularism, humanism cannot make significant inroads?
Matt: Yes. [applause]
Mitch: I think that's all the questions. We've covered them all. [applause]